Giant Drafting Problems

This month, the Giants had to make a huge cash outlay to start bandaging a roster beset by injuries and bad players.   The injuries might just be bad luck, but the bad players have been on the roster because, between the two recent Superbowl wins, the Giants stopped maximizing their picks and dancing with what brung them.

Let's take a look back, starting in `07.   We'll start there because that was Jerry Reese's last year as board meister in the Giants Draft room.   Since then, Marc Ross has been setting up the big board, and he's either been unlucky or just sort of unsuccessful in keeping the Giants stocked with the sorts of players they need to win Super Bowls.

2007

2007 marked the year that Jerry Reese took over as GM.   That year he did double duty running the draft board as well.  After the 2007 season,  the Giants won the Super Bowl, so that draft was hailed as a great one.   In actuality, it wasn't that great.   They took Aaron Ross with the 20th pick of the first, because they couldn't work a trade up to get Revis.  Ross was an older prospect, who was sort of okay, but never played like a first round corner.  Steve Smith was the second round pick.  He made a great play in Super Bowl 42, then went on to have a Pro Bowl year, and nice career with the Giants.  His career was ruined by injuries.  That was bad luck.  In the third, they took Jay Alford.  He had a crucial sack in SB 42, then had his career derailed by injuries.  More bad luck.  In the fourth they took Zack DeOssie and he's still with the team.   We've won two SB's with him anchoring the punt coverage team, and he'll probably go down as the all time Giant long snapper.  In the fifth, they took Kevin Bosss.  Great pick, derailed by injury.  In the sixth they took Adam Koets, sort of the first of their late round OL flyers.  They were trying to make him a C when his career was cut short by injuries.  In the seventh they took S Michael Johnson (injury shortened) and Ahmad Bradshaw - their best pick in the draft, and a huge contributor to two titles.

Now, though that draft is historically overrated, it is really only that way because Ross wasn't a great pick, and so many of the other good to great picks had their careers cut short. But they got solid to outstanding value/production from each spot, so the picking was good, even though the health luck was not.

2008

This was where Marc Ross took over the board.  We've won another SB since then, because he hit on some first rounders, but our depth has been crappy because he's had bad luck and missed outside of the first.

In 2008, the Giants were picking last.  It was actually the second time in 2 years that they had the last pick in the first round.   That was because in 2006 they traded down and took Kiwi.  Then they screwed it up by trading back up for Sinorice Moss.   Yikes!  

So, with their first pick they took Kenny Phillips.   And he really looked the part of a first rounder till he got hurt and his career fell apart.  In the second round, they to Terrell Thomas, another guy who looked like a fantastic pick -- big physical corner -- until his knees went to hell.  The Giants actually won Super Bowl 46 without T2, which sort of seemed unimaginable when he got hurt.    In the third round, the Giants took Mario Manningham.  Great pick, huge Super Bowl hero and back with the team now.   In the fourth round, they traded up a bit to take Bryan Kehl.  This was a terrible wast of two picks.  I think he may still be in the league, but as a Giant he was, perhaps, the least physical LB in Giant history.  Just embarrassing.   In the fifth, they took Jonathan Goff, who was much better than Kehl, till he got hurt and declined.  In the sixth, they took Andre Woodson, the first of their squandered QB picks that could have been depth picks.  And with their second 6th rounder they took Robert Henderson and big DE with a quick first step.

In all, the 2008 draft was a nice effort under the new board guy.   Phillips, Thomas, Mario and Goff all looked like big time, winning type Giants at times.   But things were about to get bad.

2009

This is really where our current problems started.  2009 was that rare year, where they Giants had 2 2nd round picks and 2 third round picks.  George Young would have absolutely cleaned up with those four picks.   Marc Ross went 1 for 4 and the one is Will Beatty, so it sort of depends on what you think of him.

With the 29th pick of the first, they took Hakeem Nicks, who was on course to be the Giants greatest receiver of all time, till injuries and alienation ended that hope.  Still, a huge reason we got to and won Super Bowl 46.   Drafted to address the loss of Plax -- he was better than Plax.  Great pick.

Then the disaster started.  In the second, they took Clint Sintim over Masx Unger.  I've written endlessly about that awful pick.  It was even awful when it happened as both of the Giants sites I pay attention to exploded with discontent.   Sintim had none of the measurables the Giants favor in their prospects and the pick seemed to have been plucked from someone's butt.  Just a terrible, franchise blasting pick.

Later in the second, they took Will Beatty.   Beatty has started at LT for the Giants, and at times looked good.  In general, it took him too long to unseat Dave Diehl, and when he did he got injured.  He's injured again now, but he did play well enough for awhile to earn a second contract.

In the third, where they still had chances to hit some other areas, they drafted Ramses Barden and Travis Beckham.   These were disastrous picks that did nothing to help the roster either in 2009 or going forward. They should have gotten at least 1 and probably 2 Giants out of this round but they got none.

In the fourth, they got Andre Brown.   He got hurt, got cut, got picked up by other teams, then came back and did alright.  He's currently he's a free agent with an injury history and a fumble history.

They blew their 5th, 6th and 7th picks on Rhett Bomar, another wasted QB pick,  DeAndre Wright, a DB and Stony Woodson another DB.   Three more horrible, depth defying picks.

By the way, there is some thought that the 2009 draft was just sort of universally bad as a talent pool. Still, that does not excuse taking Clint Sintim over Max Unger, or the squandering of the thirds.

2010

The Giants had a great set up for 2010, starting with the 15th pick of the first round.

As you recall, the Giants harkened back to their "draft physical freaks" credo and did a really good job.   They took Jason Pierre Paul out of South Florida in the first, and before his health and conditioning went South, he was looking like the Next Great Giant Defender and contributed hugely to the last championship season.

In the second, they struck gold again, with Linval Joseph out of East Carolina.  He turned out to be a more than worthy successor to Barry Cofield at DT, and, had bad drafting not forced us into all these free agent deals this offseason, Linval's deal with Minnesota probably would have gotten us a decent pick next year.

In the third, tragedy struck.   The Giants drafted Chad Jones, a super athletic S prospect out of LSU.  He'd also been a baseball draft pick, and looked like a really good pick.  Unfortunately, he was badly injured in a car accident on the way home from mini-camp and never played a down for the Giants.   Just awful.   Can't fault the Giants at all for the pick.

We can fault them for picking Phil Dillard in the fourth down.  He was a craptastical MLB from Nebraska, whom, at the very least they reached like crazy to get.   This brings up one of the areas where either Marc Ross or the scouts have gone wrong - actually it's two of the areas.  First, they seem to have a preference for big schools over the smaller schools that Jerry used to use to find gems.        For some reason they feel more comfortable failing with brand name school picks, than doing a little more work and finding an under scouted kid. That's been one of the big factors in our current roster dilemma.

Of course, the second big problem has been their absolutely awful record of drafting linebackers.  Holy crap, have they ever lost their historically deft tough at LB's and it goes way back.   But Dillard was yet another guy they took for the position who just couldn't play.  Awful pick, and the Giants had, at least for awhile, been a good round 4 team.  Historically, they've been a great round 2 team, btw.

In the fifth they took Mitch Petrus.  Strongest guy in the draft, other than Linval Joseph and a former full back who just kept growing or injecting.   There used to be a video on Giants.com of Jerry Reese just raving about what a nasty Rich Seubert-like guy Petrus was.  The video disappeared almost immediately, but Jerry kept dropping his name, and had a lot of us thinking that we had a guy.  Alas, he looked okay at first, then came back and stunk and got cut. Not a Dave Diehl fifth round value at all, not so much as a Kevin Boss.

In the sixth, the took Adrian Tracy.  He had a quick first step as a pass rusher, but instead of using him as a specialist on passing downs, they idiotically tried to make him a SAM for awhile.  When they finally decided to let him use his first step, he got hurt.

In the seventh they took Matt Dodge.  They did that because he had a big leg, and they thought Feagles could teach him to directionally kick.  He couldn't.  No value.


2011

In 2011 the Giants were picking 19th on their way back to the SB.   With the 19th pick, they took Prince Amukamara, a falling prospect who represented big value and has played like a first round corner over the past two seasons.

In the second round, they outsmarted themselves.  They too DT Marvin Austin, out of UNC.  He was actually out of UNC before he should have been, having missed an entire season under suspension for meeting with an agent.   On his old tape, he looked like Warren Sapp.   Of course, he hadn't played in forever, and got hurt as soon as they picked him.   He never locked up a spot in the rotation and was not able to be that under tackle to Linval's nose that the Giants were dreaming of.

This turned out to be a terrible pick both for the 2011 team and every team since.   The Giants have historically been a great second round team, and whiffing on a 2 like this, just as with Sintim has had brutal repercussions.

In the third they took Jerrel Jernigan out of Troy.   He ran into bad luck with injuries and the meteoric rise of Victor Cruz in the slot.  The coaches didn't seem to like him, and that might have caused friction between the coaches and the front office and ownership, as John Mara brought up Jernigan in his end of the season postmortem.    Jernigan finally got to play WR down the stretch this year and looked like a weapon.  Could still turn out of be a good pick.

In the fourth, they took James Brewer, a big tackle out of Indiana, who had long arms and decent feet. Looked like a guy, but has not played like one at all.  In fact, he's been moved inside to guard and failed to distinguish himself.  Another big reason we have to rebuild the offensive line.

They had no 5th, I think that might have been the Keith Rivers pick.

They had three 6ths, and in a nutshell, revealed that big school/conference flaw in their thinking.   They took Greg Jones, a mike from MSU, then, Tyler Sash, a safety from Iowa, then Jacquian Williams from South Florida.  Williams is the only one who could play at all, and he was from the smallest program.  It took them three tries in a single round to get a guy.

In the seventh they took, Da'Rell Scott, a really fast RB who looked like he might be a guy, but got passed on the depth chart when they drafted another fast RB in the first the following year.

2012

In 2012, the Giants were picking last again thanks to another thrilling Super Bowl win.   They won that title because they had three good WR's, still had Bradshaw and big Jake, got a late season rally from their declining OL, their young DL's and FA Chris Canty, and because Eli Manning is one of the greatest big game QB's of all time.

With the last pick of the first round in 2012 the Giants took David Wilson first, he's been electrifying when not injured or in the coaches' dog house, but now may be at a career crossroads after spinal fusion.

In the second, they took Rueben Randle.  He's been up and down so far, but reminds no one of Hakeem Nicks, and they probably shouldn't be counting on him to replace Nicks.  He could still have upside, but a scary percentage of his targeted throws last year ended up going to other way.

In the third, they took Jayron Hosley.  He's looked okay at times, but I don't think he can beat out Thurmond for slot corner, and may not be able to beat out Holliday or Demps on returns this year, if they let him compete there.

In the fourth, they took the JPP of TE's in Adrien Robinson out of Cincinnati.   We're still waiting on him to get his first catch, and are currently in a stated of  TE panic as a fan base.

With their second 4th, they took Brandon Mosley.  He looked horrible before getting DL'd in his first camp.  He then looked somewhat encouraging before getting hurt last year.   They sort of really need him to be a guy, but they'd be foolish to think he's part of the solution going into the draft.

They didn't have a 5th here, either, so that might have been the Keith Rivers pick.

In the sixth they took Matt McCants, who didn't make the Giants but was playing for the Raiders as a tackle last year.

In the seventh, they took Marcus Kuhn, an overage prospect out of Germany at DT.  He got right into the rotation, but was pushed around a lot before succumbing to injury.   He'll be back to to compete for a spot this year.


2013

2013 saw the Giants finally return to some of their classic values.  

With the 19th pick in the first, they took Justin Pugh.   This was the highest they had taken an OL since Luke Petigout.  He was able to step in and start at RT as a rookie, and looked just like the guys we have always won with.  Earlier this offseason I said he was the model for the rebuild and we needed to get back to the classic archetypal  OL's we'v traditionally won with.

In the second, they took a big DT in Johnathan Hankins as insurance against Linval leaving. He was able to get into the rotation last year and looked good against double teams.  Could be another Linval, and they didn't screw up the pick by trying to find a 3 tech.

In the third, they took a long pass rushing DE in DeMontre Moore out of Texas A&M.   Moore needs to gain some lower body strength, but he made big plays when given chances as a rookie, and that's never a bad thing.  Still, he may not be ready to step in for Tuck quite yet.

In the fourth, they either lost their minds a little or made a good move by picking QB Ryan Nassib.   Opinions are divergent on this guy, and he did nothing to distinguish himself in his first training camp.  Still he has a good arm, and a great Wonderlic, so he should have no problem learning, and could even become useful as a back up or trade chip in the future.

In the fifth, they went for Cooper Taylor, a super athletic big safety, who looked like he might be a player before getting hurt last season.  He'll compete for a spot this year.

In the sixth, they took big guard Eric Herman from University of Ohio.    He was relegated to the PSquad last year, but since he was from a lower level, he might still have upside and could still be a guy.   Snee mentioned that he was working out with Herman and Pugh this offseason (where's Mosley?) in his Giants.com article this week.  Don't know if that means anything, but I think all young Giant OL's should hang out with Snee as much as they can before he is gone.

In the seventh, the Giants took RB Michael Cox, an athletic guy, who didn't play much in college, and didn't look at all instinctive when given chances as a rookie.   His roster spot is probably up for grabs.

Okay, so what have we learned about these past several drafts?  The jury is still out of a few of them, but these drafts are the big reason we had to shell out for so many FA's this offseason.

We've never had had top 10 picks during these years, and have generally drafted pretty late - even last on two occasions.

Clearly, there have been huge injury problems and in some cases tragedies, as otherwise good solid picks have seen their careers cut short, or in the case of Chad Jones, destroyed by health problems.  We cannot blame the Giants for those.

But they've also blown two huge second round picks, with Sintim and Austin.  The Giants just can't afford to do that, and yet they've done it twice under Ross.

What's more, they seemed to get away from the small school picks that yielded players like Osi and Shiancoe, in favor of going for major college/conference "sleepers" like Dillard, Brewer, Jones and Sash, all of whom missed.   This preference was seen very clearly in the 6th round of the 2011 draft where they took Jones and Sash before getting their one guy who could play with Williams from a smaller, but ascendant program.

They have been horrible at drafting LB's and, until Pugh, OL's for a long time.   They have never been able to hit on a 3-tech DT, nor have they been able to successfully convert a 3-4 LB into either a 4-3 LB or DE, though they've wasted picks trying.   Also, they have thrown 4 picks at QB's Andre Woodson, Rhett Bomar and Ryan Nassib, none of whom has come close to being worth it, though Nassib could still redeem his cost.

So there you have it, the last several draft,s and some disconcerting patterns, have created the roster problems that the Giants have now tried spending their way out of.

Meanwhile, because of the cap the Giants can't get all the way out of their roster issues now.   And they may not be able to draft their way out of them this year, even starting with nice pick placement at 12.   They really do need more picks, or at least to make better picks than they have generally over the era that stared in `08.     We'll see if they do, or if we're headed for even better draft position next year.