Giants Coaching Search Begins
The same would go for Gase. I believe Gase played for Saban at Michigan State, then started his coaching career under Saban at LSU. He then went onto the SF, and then joined Foxy's staffs in Denver and Chicago. His success with Payton may give Eli an additional comfort level, and I'd probably want an older AHC for him as well.
No word on David Shaw, yet, but he has reportedly just bought a 4.5 Million dollar home in NoCal, so he might not be interested.
John Mara said it would be an extensive search, but also a pretty quick one, so that might exclude some of the Patriot assistants. Or it might not.
posted by Kalel9 @ 10:02 AM
40 Comments:
If Shaw gets the position, does that point to a reunion with Andrew Luck when he becomes a FA? With Beckham and three pretty good, young guys on the OL, it would seem the ideal place for him. It would also be quite a coincidence if he supplanted both the Manning brothers.
I'm not saying I want to see this happen; I'll always be a huge Eli fan. Getting him was one of the great moments in NYG history and I'd rather have had him than Peyton given what he's done in the postseason. He's also been a total class act.
I still can't believe Reese is here. Just ridiculous. Anyone see the video of TC just flat out walking past Mara after the presser? Doesn't even make eye contact and just walks by with no acknowledgement. He was forced out.
I love Reese saying "I take full responsibility for the personnel issues" UMM NO SHIT, YOU'RE THE GM! I can't with this guy.
But if he hadn't said that he'd still be screwed. The Giants, even with their injuries and questionable talent, should have still won 6 more games this year, but for playcalls, missed calls and a dropped int.
I agree with Billy.
I feel like I must be taking crazy pills or something the last two weeks the way some fans have reacted to all things Giants. The way some are reacting to both John Mara & Jerry Reese has just been baffling me. His "lack" of activity directly lead to keeping Coughlin twice in 07 & 11 where public perception was to dump him. That led to two super bowls. His "lack" of activity is also why the Giants are considered the best job on the market and opens the door to more candidates here than any other place. I can’t speak from experience on how Wellington was an owner back in the 70's; but as an owner all I have seen from John is two super bowls in 10 years.
In regards to Reese, it is not nearly as cut and dry as this roster lacked talent. This guy was the architect of two super bowls. Yes, Accorsi played a huge hand in the 07 Super Bowl, but the Reese draft that year provided 6 first year starters that were all big contributors to the super bowl. Of those 6, Boss Steve Smith and Bradshaw all had careers cut short due to Injury. 2008 Reese nabbed Kenny Phillips, Terrell Thomas, Mario Manningham and Jonathan Goff at the end of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th round, and all of their careers were cut short by injuries. 2009 saw the depth of Reese's draft class shallow out, but still produced what should have been a perennial pro bowler in Nicks (career cut short by injuries) and at worst a league average LT at the end of the 2nd round in Beatty. Sintim, Barden and Travis Beckham were wasted picks, but again keep in mind the Giants were drafting 29th overall and came away with a pro bowl WR and a starting LT in that draft. 2010 brought you an All-Pro JPP and a borderline pro-bowler in Linval Joseph who ended up being a great player (Reese blew resigning him however). The 2011 Team was 100% Reese and won a Super Bowl.
Now obviously the last few years have seen the talent level decline, but as such happens when you draft perennially late in the draft, and have to pay the piper to keep talent after winning multiple super bowls. Add in a series of absurd career ending or altering injuries (along with Star players shooting themselves in the leg and going to Jail) while paying an elite QB you get cap problems and a lowered talent pool. Damage was done no doubt about it from the drafts between 2010-2012, but short of the dumpster fire of the 2012 draft all brought some sort of significant piece. The last two drafts have brought us Beckham and Flowers; potential pro bowlers (all pro in Beckham's case), along with Richburg, Kennard & Collins who all appear at a minimum to be average to above average players (pro bowl potential for Richburg and Collins as well). We have cap space to use for the first time in forever as the 2011 super bowl contracts are now off the books. Let’s see what Reese can do with money for the first time since 2006. With how the NFL is constructed today, you can’t tell me that a signing of a Plax, Kareem McKenzie and Antonio Pierce couldn't lead us right back into playoff contenders. Hell, 5 weeks ago this talent-less team which is missing its LT, WR, RG, DT, TE, half handed best defensive player, all 3 LB's, all safeties, and Prince for half the season was being hailed as a team no one would want to face if they could somehow find a way into the playoffs.
I don't like the fact that Coughlin is taking the blame, I really don't. If there's something to get upset about, it's that I will no longer be able to say that regardless to whom is patrolling the opposite field sidelines, I feel as if our Coach is the superior football man. With Coughlin, you always felt that football was his life, and no stone would be left. But the sentiment that John Mara is ruining the Giant’s and that Jerry Reese is incompetent is overblown. Just my two cents.
As far as winning six more games, that is only if every possible thing that could go right actually went right, but it overlooks:
1) that they also benefited from things going right that could have gone wrong in some of their wins; and
2) the absence of a pass rush and a running game necessarily takes on greater importance late in games.
So given their poor lines constructed by Teflon Jerry, it was foreseeable that they would lose a disproportionate amount of close games late, especially when you factor in that Eli was able to keep them in games to a point.
Disagree. Clock management is not on the GM. Nor was Landon Collins' dropped int. against the Pats. Nor was the ref errors against Dallas in game 1. Nor was JPP blowing up his hand. Nor were the injuries and missed time of Ayres and Selvie and Kennard.
I think my lack of vitriol to Jerry Reese comes from watching the state of the NFL and realizing that every team sucks. Ted Thompson is canonized for having a roster that's 48 out of 52 drafted, but his team sucks less Aaron Rodgers. The entire AFC, not one team looks like they could compete even as short as 5 years ago. I fully agree Lawyer that you cant say if x, y and z went right we would have been an 11 win team. But quite frankly in today's NFL that team who has x y and z go right for them, is the team that makes it. Its no longer the team with most talent wins, this isn't the 80's and 90's. Its the last man standing who wins. Its all about having a talent level that's high enough to get into the tournament and we are lacking in that regard. But I also don't believe the notion that we are horribly far away from being there. As bad as our talent level might be, do you think the Redskins are miles ahead of us? Eagles & Cowboys? Its about winning the division, and seeing if things go our way from there.
It's not that Reese deserves no credit, it's that the shelf-life on the credit he deserves has lapsed. That lapse of time on credit due is apparently the reason Coughlin has been dismissed. So when you factor in that Mara himself said the talent isn't there, it is more than reasonable to apply the same standard to Reese.
Clearly, he is a good scout, but he hasn't been able to hire the right people to replace himself, or he is unable to collate and prioritize the information properly.
If one of the two was deserving to stay, it's the HoF coach...unless this is about age discrimination.
Everyone got injured. You have to put those people back to make a fair assesment.
Disagree. Clock management is not on the GM. Nor was Landon Collins' dropped int. against the Pats. Nor was the ref errors against Dallas in game 1. Nor was JPP blowing up his hand. Nor were the injuries and missed time of Ayres and Selvie and Kennard.
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OK, but if McAdoo gets the job, was there true accountability for clock management?
Reese drafted Collins knowing that he was a run stopping S who had trouble in pass coverage, let along in pass catching.
Refs stuff happens. We know that. It sucks, but most if not all teams fall victim at times.
They weren't the only team with injuries, but again, if they had had a hit with Moore (or a number of the pass rushing LB busts Reese has drafted), the pass rush would have had the depth to overcome injuries.
As for Kennard, yes it hurt that the only good LB Reese ever drafted got hurt. But again, prior misses are at a bigger issue.
Why doesn't TC get the injury mulligan as well?
It wasn't my decision, but he would have. He stepped down and did not fight for his job. Those close games that were mismanaged either did or didn't do him, but he struck pre-emptively by stepping down.
"Clearly, he is a good scout, but he hasn't been able to hire the right people to replace himself, or he is unable to collate and prioritize the information properly"
This I agree with wholly. Reese openly said he was taking a more active role in the draft in 2014 after a poor season, and I believe the last two drafts have seen an improvement from the few years prior. Changes need to be made to those around him.
I don't like the fact that Coughlin got the axe and not the benefit of doubt due to circumstances, but had he earned an extension this year? His contract was up (I know, one year left, yada yada) but in all sense of Giant Business it was up. You just gave him a 1 year wait and see a year ago, How do you do another wait and see one year deal? Maybe that was what Mara offered him and he said I'm done. I do agree it seems nuts to fire Coughlin for the same reason as keeping Reese, but I dont know the full story.
seems like as I typed my original response, John Mara echoed my exact same sentiments.
Mara: "There was three years in the draft that was unproductive. Couple of times it was based on injury but alot of times it was poor drafting and not evaluating them properly.
I feel alot better about our last two draft classes in 2014 and 2015. That causes optimism going forward. Although no doubt those three years caused a lack of talent. We should have another good draft class this year with another high pick."
Steve, I read what you're saying but the draft is only 1 part of the GMs responsibilities. We've had bad luck + bad drafts for a few years but that's only half the equation. Reese FA signigns and resignigns of players is piss poor. You note Linval Joseph as one example but there are other major examples of misses here too. Baas? DRC? Tuck? DWAYNE HARRIS, I could go on but this guy has not signed anything of use ever.
Dwayne Harris and DRC have been good, though had some injuries, too. Baas was injury luck, and what about Tuck? No third contract?
DRC has been good? Are we watching the same game?
Dwayne Harris is a special teams player who we had to guarantee 5+mil.
Again, we can't blame everything on injuries. I only listed like 4 players but name me a good signing. You can't.
Yes, DRC has been good. Dwayne Harris was probably our second best receiver this year.
McAdoo seems to already have interviewed.
Maybe DRC has been good in comparison with the other players in our secondary but overall he's been a bust, especially at the price we paid. He has a 40% stop rating over the past 2 years, which ranks him 50th for all CBs in the league. Is that good in your eyes? Honestly, even if he was average, that doesn't justify his salary.
And when Dwayne Harris is your second best WR, that just further echoes my point that Reese is a terrible GM.
Just look @ this article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1996260-giants-sign-dominique-rodgers-cromartie-to-cap-stellar-free-agency-push
real stellar, Jerry.
If was them, I would hire a defensively oriented head coach and convince him to keep McAdoo, because they want to keep him.
I think they will hire McAdoo, and that brings time management risks, running back by committee (or the aging, injury and fumble prone Jennings), and a guy who somehow wouldn't call a play in which a few OL went right at Norman to send an unmistakable message.
That stat is kind of ridiculous. Corey Webster was a good CB who looked terrible until D-line play improved, when teams have 20 seconds to pass a corners numbers tend to look bad. Just watching Cromartie I see a very good CB. Its not like he is paid top 10 money; he is paid as an average #1 corner. And $5 million guaranteed for Dwayne Harris is a bad deal? I think its an absolute steal after the season he just had. The guy just got a punt return and kick return touchdown in the same season for the first time 50 years for the Giants, as well as provided much more as a WR than any of us was expecting. I mean hell, Andre Johnson got more money, less years, more guaranteed and I would rather have Dwayne Harris at receiver than Johnson, let alone Dwayne Harris the special teamer.
Again, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see someone post (not here) but Reese's draft history in the 3rd to 7th round, that's like saying the Giants have been a bad team aside from the two Super Bowls. You can't discredit two super bowl seasons and you cant discredit very good early round draft picks. And also this team has produced above average in the UDFA market. Say what you want about Larry Donnell, but he is a very good find as an UDFA, same with Will Tye, Cruz, Kerry Wynn, and to a lesser extent Darkwa (whom I like).
In terms of free agency deal has totally blown up in his face? People like to bring up Baas, but in the grand spectrum he wasn't paid a kings ransom, he was paid well because he was the best player available at a position that we needed, and yea he wasn't a pro bowler, but he was good enough to center a Super Bowl winning Offensive Line. The contract issue for him was compounded by the amount of times we needed to restructure him, but that's what happens when you win a Super Bowl, you need to pay the piper for that and you have to work the cap to fit other players that are needed.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to make excuses for everything Reese has done. The talent level this year was woefully thin, but I don't understand the idea that some are throwing out that he is an incompetent boob whom needs to be brought out to pasture. People now look back at Accorsi as a good GM for the team because of Eli, but go back to 2005 after 4 losing seasons following a super bowl appearance and a multitude of failed 1st round draft picks and all the same criticisms could be made against him; and he didn't have two super bowl wins on his resume.
Even if you construe every ambiguous fact in Reese's favor, it's difficult to argue that he is a top tier GM. Given the length of his tenure, how does it make sense to continue down that course? Shouldn't ownership look to be great rather than merely ok, at best?
Under any reasonable construction of the facts, either Reese AND Coughin should have stayed, or both should have gone. And if one should have stayed, it should have been the HoF coach...except...he is old.
So it's completely understandable that many fans are unhappy with the current state of the Giants, and have little confidence that Reese can be part of the solution in his present job. Then factor in his clueless performance at yesterday's presser, and it's fairly predictable that he would become an object of derision.
As for any FA "finds," the reason they are viewed with skepticism is that they have been asked to be starters rather than to merely provide depth to better, drafted talent.
Billy,
Pretty sure they were counting on Victor Cruz to be their #2 WR. After that Randle. But Ranldle was inconsistent, and Harris stepped up.
If teams have all day to throw because there's no passrush, it significantly changes a CB's degree of difficulty. DRC is a good player, how battled injuries, including a concussion this year.
McAdoo will interview with the Eagles. That would be fun!
Payton reportedly staying in NO. I don't think that he was going to be hired anyway.
The Knicks???
Starting to percolate!
I have to admit that Calderon is playing better, although he gets broken down way too often on defense it doesn't take much basketball knowledge to see that an upgrade at point guard, who could drive the lane and pressure the ball, would make this a pretty good team.
The more I think about it, the more I want a head coach who knows how to build a killer defense.
Jordan Raanan @JordanRaanan
Even if there is an in-house hire everything I've heard is there will be a staff shakeup #Giants
btw, By killer defense, I don't mean Spags. He might be the worst hire they could make. I didn't want him back as DC.
Draft "hits" from 2007-13 in Rounds 3-7:
(Note: It usually takes three seasons to be able to accurately assess a draft so 2014-15 was not calculated.)
1. Packers – 14
2. Dolphins – 13
T-3. Panthers – 12
Raiders – 12
Bucs – 12
T-6. Texans – 11
Colts – 11
Bears – 11
Vikings – 11
Falcons – 11
T-11. Seahawks – 10
Chiefs – 10
T-13. Rams – 9
Chargers – 9
Titans – 9
Jaguars – 9
Bengals – 9
Steelers – 9
Ravens – 9
Broncos – 9
T-21. Cards – 8
Lions – 8
Cowboys – 8
Eagles – 8
Jets – 8
T-26. Saints – 7
Browns – 7
T-28. 49ers – 6
Patriots – 6
Giants – 6
Bills – 6
32. Redskins – 3
There are the Giants all the way down there near the bottom. Tied for 28th in the NFL. Only the Redskins had fewer "hits" than the Giants since Reese took over as general manager.
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/01/the_research_jerry_reese_wanted_it_and_the_giants.html
I think it will be McAdoo but I think the key will be his DC, iow, not Spags.
John Mara says on ESPN Radio he believed Odell Beckham Jr. should have been removed from Carolina game by NYG sideline until he calmed down.
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He can blame Coughlin, but he can't completely absolve McAdoo.
And the right moves made earlier (intervening with Norman, with Beckham, or playcalling) could have probably minimized the outcome.
Strong interest in Marrone?
TC to interview with the Eagles.
Smith in on Monday.
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