Yanks: Trading for SS DiDi Gregorius
Meanwhile, from the Yanks perspective, they would be trading one of their few signed and healthy rotation pieces. That would inevitably mean that not only do they intend to bring in one new starting pitcher, but two. Hello, Scherzer and McCarthy.
So Gregorius might be a fine bandage for the position, until Mateo or one of the other kids is ready, trading Green could lead to unfortunate consequences.
UPDATE: They apparently made the deal while I was writing the post. We'll see what the details are as they come in.
posted by Kalel9 @ 7:33 AM
38 Comments:
I'm intrigued -- plus defense is critical at SS, but I need to look at some things with Greene first before actually saying I like the deal or not.
Trading Green creates two holes where we thought we had one.
We have upgraded SS D for sure.
Greene, that is.
So you trade a cost-controlled young SP with stuff for a SS who can't hit on a team that can't hit.
Typical.
And Dombrowksi tends to eat Cashman's lunch.
I wouldn't be surprised if your suggestion that they have at least one if not two starters lined up were correct.
Every starter "lined up" with be expensive or have injury issues.
LNJ you echo my feelings. I will pull for Didi but i feel we were fleeced.Boy I hope im wrong ...
I thought it was strange when Cash...man said he wanted two starters. I don't think they were ever that high on Greene.
Just had a feeling today was make moves day.
I think we're getting Scherzer, McCarthy and Miller, and taking the pick for Robertson.
I don't like that at all, but it wouldn't surprise me.
No plan, just see what sticks.
I don't like it, either, but I think it's pretty apparent that that will happen.
On the positive side, I also believe we're getting the two Yoans.
Fangraphs likes this trade for the Yanks.
Going for Scherzer over Lester is just dumb. LH, LHP in YS.
No strong feelings on this trade one way or the other. But yeah, Lester over Scherzer or I'm gonna be annoyed.
Gregorious is a cool name though.
There are a few metrics, including hard hit % that show DiDi has upside as a hitter, to go along with great D.
If this team had a really good offense, that might be important to me, but with one that might be ridiculously bad again, I see it as too much of a reach.
As I have said, I watch a team because I love young players with big offensive upside. We have none.
They should have tried to move Gardner for a SS.
At this point, you'd have to move Gardner for a big OF bat, and I'm not sure one is available that would be worth it. Then again, the Braves are looking to move Justin Upton...
What SS would Gardner fetch? Alexei Ramirez?
I am still doing my research but I think we sold high on Greene. There is no possible way he could sustain a 75% LOB% -- if that reverts to even the league average, his FIP and ERA jump to the mid 4s and that's optimistic.
As far as Didi is concerned, the amount of runs he'll save far outweighs the runs he'll create and in my opinion, that is just as valuable. He is only 24 and with some consistent playing time, he should only get better.
How do I know what Gardner could bring back, but he became a redundant, tradeable piece after Ellsbury was signed.
Could we trade for Dombrowski?
Idk you clearly stated they should have moved Gardner to obtain the SS, so I was curious who you would have targeted.
I don't think Gardner is redundant at all with Ellsbury; Power is suppressed throughout the league and having two guys who can steal 30+ bags and play elite OF defense is a good surplus to have.
It is precisely because offense is suppressed that you acquire players who have more natural power and don't give up young pitchers with upside for SS that can't hit.
And defense is overrated in comparison to offense.
They keep doubling down on a failed strategy employed by a GM who can't admit serial mistakes, but why should he? His bosses are clueless and the media just nods because he talks to them.
Well for 1, Greene is not young, he's actually 26 and older than Tanaka.
And a way to combat offense is to prevent runs, which is done by pitching and defense.
In the majority of your statements, you emphasize the need for the yanks to give young position players a chance. Didi is 24 and has crushed the upper levels of the minors, but has not yet received consistent playing time in the majors.
He has upside with the bat, which is contrary to your statement that he can't hit, and his floor is high due to his defense, what else do you want them to do?
Separately, while this opens 2 holes in the rotation, there is a SURPLUS of pitching throughout the league. I'd rather us have a deficit there then a position that is scarce.
How is defense overrated in comparison to offense?
Preventing a run has the same effect as scoring a run.
On the Yankees 26 is young, and it's not like kids get a chance to finish off their develop in NY.
Pitching is fragile. Every time you pay big bucks you take a risk that a similarly priced offensive player doesn't carry in a comparable way.
Because defense necessarily has to be evaluated subjectively. How do we know that? Look how many times advanced metrics and the "eye test" diverge.
Offense can be viewed much more independently.
The other day, you defended your favorite GM by saying how could he know the removal PEDs would hurt offense?
I thought it was foreseeable as did others.
Now we know. The offense still sucks.
Preventing a run is not tantamount to scoring a run.
Pitchers often pitch differently when they know that any mistake could be the game. Even if they don't, it adds stress. I think we saw that with Tanaka last year, who single-handedly may have save Goofy Joe's job.
"In the majority of your statements, you emphasize the need for the yanks to give young position players a chance"
HOME GROWN PLAYERS
I'd appreciate it if you actually didn't take snippets of a statement and use them out of context to try and prove your point.
Look, I'm a big fan of Shane Greene - I think the kid has great stuff but I'm also a realist and all signs point to his numbers crashing down to earth.
As you said so yourself, pitchers are fragile. So what's the issue with trading a SP for a player 2 years younger that fills a critical hole that is scarce throughout the league?
The pessimism towards Didi as a hitter is unwarranted. The kid has hit at every stop in the Minors and has shown flashes at the MLB level. He has upside in this area and while he's not going to be the next Tulo, his floor is already high due to his elite defense.
I honestly would love to hear why you don't agree that a run saved is not as valuable as a run scored.
"Pitchers often pitch differently when they know that any mistake could be the game. Even if they don't, it adds stress" ---- This is an extremely weak argument and completely unfounded.
Every PITCH matters and yes there are high stress situations but your fooling yourself if you think a pitchers mindset is different when the score is 0-0 versus 4-0.
I use those quotes as shorthand to address your entire point.
I already told you. Beyond that, the ability to score a bunch of runs can scare the crap out of most pitchers, causing him to approach a lineup differently.
In a complementary way, knowing your offense can score a bunch of runs gives pitchers the confidence to just trust their stuff and not nibble, knowing that one mistake could be fatal.
Runs saved are more subtle and unpredictable. Who really knows how many times x fielder gets to a given ball, and it has different results depending on the score.
We just have fundamental viewpoints on baseball.
Being the bombers has been a pretty good raison d'etre for the NYY. It has created a storied history.
Why the hell not model a team the same way forever.
The answer to the offense/defense thing is that there is a relationship between defense and pitching in which pitching has historically been more important then defense in the prevention of runs.
So offense is offense, but defense is heavily influenced and attributable to pitching. So it can be and has been overrated a bit.
I do think the problem with this deal is that we now need two starters, and not that we gave up Greene for Gregorius. There are reasons to like both players and you do have to give to get.
Btw, the Yanks tried to get Gregorius last year in a deal involving Brett Gardner.
There is clearly something they like about this guy, and I'd assume it comes from the analytics department.
Gardner for him would have been a much bigger problem with me than trading Greene for him.
I think Greene has filthy stuff but he still needs to build up his innings.
Maybe now they keep Phelps in the rotation to fill 1 of those 2 holes? There's a lot of off-season and I think this is just the first domino to fall.
I'm expecting a roster overhaul from a lot of teams.
I trust Dombrowski's judgment, I don't' trust Cashman's anymore. He has made too many mistakes for too long.
And Mike's right. Gardner for Didi would have been insane.
I do agree with LINJ in that the lineup should pose a threat to SP but we also need to realize that the days of teams scoring 800+ runs in a season are gone.
I think building this team's offense based around three factors will be critical to success: OBP, Low k% and Speed. Those items are sustainable and should allow for a consistent offensive attack day in and out. In years past we were extremely reliant on the long ball and we need to shift our focus from that type of approach.
You trust Dombrowski's judgement? He was fleeced in the Fister trade and I believe he was fleeced in the Price trade too.
Joel Sherman says Tim Naehring was the big pro-scouting proponent of Gregorius for the Yanks.
Cash says he'll start out platooning with Ryan. Hopefully, Ryan will get his plus fielding straightened back out.
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