Yanks Non-Tender Heathcott, Campos and Huff
Letting Huff go reflected at least some recognition that relievers are fungible, and taking bad options away from Girardi is a good idea.
They re-signed Esmil Rogers, so that gives them another extra arm on the AAA/MLB cusp.
In other news, it appears that Tony Franklin is out as manager of the AA Trenton Thunder, a job he had done for 7 years. I have often argued that the minor league managers and coaches had to upgraded if we wanted to upgrade development. So, this may be a welcome start.
posted by Kalel9 @ 8:03 AM
63 Comments:
Everyone goes but the guy at the top and his horrible manager.
I do hope we work something out with Campos
It was definitely one of the weirdest trades that I can remember but may work out for the wrong reasons.
Obviousoly, Montero should have been packaged for an in their prime offensive player, preferably an infielder for the left side.
I have been saying for over 5 years (and being attacked for it by idiots on various Yankee boards) that a smart GM would have realized that their biggest need to was to acquire a young SS/3B to help mitigate Jeter and A-Rod's foreseeable decline.
Instead, we had to watch A-Rod implode and Jeter play while in a deep decline.
The silver lining to that trade is, at least the Yankees foresaw holes in Montero's game and sold high. And Pineda, if he can just ever stay healthy (big if) actually appears to be a top-of-the-rotation guy.
What are his holes, Mike? To me, his issues seem character related. He actually had a representative rookie year, hitting LHP well (.322 .366 .463 .830), and hitting well on the road (.295 .330 .438 .768).
In all honest LINJ, what in the world would make you happy? I'm seriously reconsidering my participation on this forum because all I read is you whining day after day.
Maybe you should go be a Mets fan.
His attitude is his problem and his inability to catch.I was bashed 4 or 5 years ago for suggesting a trade of he for Porcello. LOL.I saw him behind the plate in Trenton and It wasn't that he couldn't catch that turned me off it was the way he went after pass balls with no effort.
Dude,
Since I know Phil doesn't like it, I will refrain from pointing out your comical shortcomings, but unless he asks me to leave, I am going to post what I believe to be true.
I agree with yf, although I thought he could catch passably if he worked hard.
He's shown an inability to hit RHP. That, coupled with the character issues you mentioned, made him a prime "sell high" candidate.
Though I do wonder how he would have fared had he remained with the Yankees. He seemed heartbroken to be traded, and I don't think he ever truly recovered mentally.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Let's stay on topic, here. And the topic is never each other.
Billy, I know your question wasn't directed at me, but here's a list of things that would make me much happier about the state of the Yankees:
1.) An ownership group that doesn't show a propensity to tighten the purse strings at inopportune times and realizes there is value in rebuilding every so often.
2.) A GM who is willing to completely overhaul what needs to be overhauled with his mediocre-at-best farm system, be it amateur scouting in America, player development or both.
3.) A team that makes sound medical decisions — I.E. not rushing Chien-Ming Wang back from a significant injury, not letting Beltran play when it's obvious he needs wrist surgery, etc.
4.) A GM/manager (since I don't know how much Girardi has a say in this) who is willing to let kids from the farm fill out the bench for the league minimum instead of having to sign backups with limited upside for a couple million each. And also, a GM/manager who is willing to let some of the team's better arms compete for bullpen spots and starter spots when injuries require it instead of signing journeymen pitchers to do the same.
5.) A team that doesn't insult our intelligence by pretending to contend when it's obvious it's not going anywhere even if by some small chance it does make the playoffs.
I know this is repetitive, and I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, but these are very real problems that make rooting for this team so very frustrating.
Here's what I want to see so it could be used as a benchmark, and I will give praise (heh) if it happens.
1) I would tell the overpaid declining types that make up much of this roster that you are playing for your job. If a kid comes reasonably close to your production or even shows the potential to be better, you are going to be a crazy expensive bench player.
2) But if they insist on this win-now nonsense, then sign Lester.
As I have said, the reason is that there is no pick involved, and if somehow Tanaka and Pineda stay healthy and pitch up to their potential, if Lester does the same, they have a chance to compensate for an offense that cannot be fixed.
3) Refs and Murphy are getting major PT no matter what.
I'd like to see them get the two young Cubans.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to personally attack anyone but it's frustrating to read reiterated statements that are counterproductive to any potential thread.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
While I agree with LINJ and the majority of Mike's statements, I think we lose sight of certain factors that impact our beloved Yankees.
As much as we want to think otherwise, the Yankees franchise is first and foremost now run as a business. The good ole days of George not caring about the bottom line are gone. We have to learn to accept this as much as it pains me to say this.
A lot of decisions have been driven by the statement above. Hate on Cashman all you want but the biggest culprit is Randy Levine. I worked in the baseball ops department for the Yankees and have seen firsthand how badly he hinders the baseball ops team. Randy Levine has more power then anyone here realizes and he is the driving factor behind A LOT of decisions. That is why I'm biased against a lot of criticism towards Cashman because no one really knows who is pulling the strings.
Another thing I just want to point out is that no one foresaw the dramatic decline in offense that has spread throughout the sport. Did people anticipate some decline due to stricter PED testing? Of course but no one thought we'd go from 15+ 40hr hitters a year to 1 in 3 short years. Pitching was critical to any team winning and now the balance seems to have switched.
The sport is ever evolving and I think there are some areas where we've excelled and others where we have fallen behind on.
I think a great investment would be to add additional training staff to the major league roster. 25 man rosters means there should be atleast 5 people on the staff. We need to be proactive instead of reactive when it comes to injury prevention. Being healthy is a key component to success and this is an area where we can and need to improve.
K9 What's your take on this power hitting SS that's about to be posted? I think his name is Kang ?
A few points:
1) if you remove PEDs from the game, or at least attenuate their usage, a decline in offense is foreseeable. Then factor in the removal of amphetamines, and a decline was even more likely.
2) given the age of the Yankees' roster following the 2011 season, the contractual status of Swisher, and the precipitous decline of Tex, and their looming offensive problems were (or should have been) obvious.
You may recall that their offense in the timeframe basically lived and died based on whether or not A-Rod was in the lineup.
Yet the GM told everyone following the 2011 season that he had offense to spare and that pitching held the keys to the kingdom.
On LoHud I said they should trade free agent to be Swisher and sign Beltran. They thought he was too injury prone then, but not at 37. k...
3) yes, they are a business, but a poorly run business in baseball terms, squandering their financial advantage, and while Levine makes less sense than his look alike, Harpo Marx, he thinks Cashman is dong a "great job." The facts are contra.
It doesn't matter who is pulling the strings because Cashman keeps ratifying these decisions by re-upping.
You can't keep saying I would have done things differently and pocket $3m a year, year after year.
And he is the one who hired Joey G. the OCD nutjob.
Billy, that's interesting in regards to Levine. I've suspected he's got too much power, but what you allude to sounds even more serious than I imagined. I'd love to exchange emails sometime to hear more.
I actually don't think Cashman is a bad GM, but I do think his unwillingness to totally overhaul his player development team is a black eye on his tenure given the failures there. Were I him, I'd probably have gone somewhere else by now, but maybe he's just comfortable with what he knows, even if front office politics comes into play.
Miller is reportedly close to a four-year deal. I really hope it's not the Yankees who have offered that.
I actually think Cashman is a bad GM, and if he wants to prove he isn't, then leave.
I'm happy to share any stories or insight into how everything works through a private email.
To address the decline in offense, some of it is attributable to PEDs and the other is due to PITCHING. Velocity has increased dramatically, where the avg fastball of a starter is now 92mph, up from 90mph 4 years ago. Average Reliever fastball is now 94mph, up from 91mph in 2008.
To exacerbate those figures, in 2003 only 1 pitcher threw 25 pitches over 100mph and that was Billy Wagner. This year alone saw 10 players hit that figure, with 1 being a starter in Gerrit Cole (imagine if he signed?)
Yes, we should have foreseen a decline in offense due to PED usage, but no one could have predicted Teixiera becoming a shell of himself, Cano leaving for ridiculous money or even A-Rod being banned for steroids (ok the last one everyone saw coming).
Still, I'm not trying to justify the Yankees moves and I do believe they should have overhauled their player development but I am in no position to sit here and point fingers at people. I'd rather discuss ways to improve instead of clamoring about the past that can't be changed.
One other item of note:
Player development is not an exact science. There is no right or wrong way. Look at the Pirates, who were laughed at in the industry due to their military style training but it has produced talent in the likes of Marte, Polanco and pitchers.
There are so many factors that come into play that are commonly overlooked by fans. Some players crush the minors and then never do anything in the majors. Some prospects put up mediocre numbers and then crush the majors.
If there was a single method that churned out players, everyone would be doing it. However, whatever the Yankees employed for a while was not a good idea.
Heres a good example of poor player development that was finally addressed: Nardi Contreras would shelve every pitcher's off-speed pitch and made them throw a curveball. I was happy to see him get reassigned last year.
Billy, my email is mkerekes714@gmail.com. Feel free to hit me up.
So if pitching is up, doesn't that prioritize developing young offense, and if so, how have they done that? They have chosen Young over a kid, any jerk they could find over Pirela and Roller, and on and on.
By the end of 2011, Tex was in a precipitous decline LH. So one can excuse his contract in 2009 (although some people wanted to pass and wait for Holliday), but not the continued belief that he would turn it around.
How are they going to improve though, at least fundamentally, when the GM admits they won't make veteran for youth trade at the AS break because they never take a step back, when guys like Roberts and Crapuano are allowed to block kids, and when they sign a C long-term when that is their strongest mL positional depth?
I don't see how this changes.
Maybe Levine is primarily responsible, but as I said, when you take the big check, it's on you too just as much.
I once defended Cashman, but his entire outlook and reason for being has changed as GM, and he has become a troll toward the fans (they hate HR) and Yogi Berra (with his Nunez comment).
I wish it were otherwise.
714 is a loaded number for someone who lived my social life. Just sayin'.
Jon Heyman 2m
nothing to indicate yanks in on lester, who has at least cubs, bos & sf bidding. if nyy makes big SP play it'll be scherzer
_
Jeez.
Young is a 4th of that was signed as a defensive replacement and to play/PH against LH pitchers. He was also signed to a small deal, he's hardly blocking any prospects that may come up.
The yanks have tried to develop hitters but haven't had major success. Mike Trout is the outlier, no hitters go through the MiLB the way he did. It takes 2-3 years at minimum to develop hitters and unfortunately, the Yanks haven't seen any fruits of their labor.
Bichette = highly doubtful he makes it
Sanchez = still only 21 in AA, has potential
Heathcott = always hurt
Williams = serious decline, wtf
Austin = rebounded well
Bird = on the cusp
Refsnyder = on the cusp
Murphy = on the cusp
Maybe this is the year we start to see some of these guys get the call, who knows. What I do know is that Roller is not the answer.
Roberts was permitted to block Pirela, as did Johnson, Capuano took starts away from Mitchell.
Veterans get preferential treatment no matter how much they suck. They get extended chances merely by that status.
In the unlikely chance kids do get a shot, they must must produce immediately or sit or be sent down.
There are always hitters on the cusp and they never get a shot or fizzle in the minor leagues.
When you haven't developed an everyday position player since Gardner, you don't get the benefit of the doubt.
And there has been ZERO accountability on the GM for that failure.
He is the one who set the standard.
In 2005, he said:
"We have the most money, there's no secret about that," Cashman said. "If you combine that with the best decision-making process on a consistent basis, then God help the rest of baseball."
Almost 10 years later, nothing but more of the same.
The only one he has helped is the rest of baseball.
Judge is on the cusp, too.
Lawyer, Heyman might have been pimping Boras's interests above. There is conflicting buzz regarding the Yanks and Lester right now..
Markakis to the Braves.
4/44.
4/44.
Great news about Markakis...So glad we didn't sign him..
I think we're gonna keep D-rob and add 2 from Lester Scherzer Miller
Miller down to Yankees/Dodgers.
Francesa loves the idea. 'Nuff said.
Miller and Lester would be great!
Just because the Yanks played a veteran at a position doesn't mean there was prospect being blocked.
Bryan Mitchell started the season in AA and the yanks got his feet wet later in the season. If he was ready to start in the MLB before then, he would have. Case in point: Shane Greene.
I agree about Roberts but I'm not convinced Pirela is the answer. I do wish he got a shot sooner then he did but Roberts should have been DFA'd after May.
I do have a question though, what hitting prospect have you seen called up that didn't get either consistent ABs or had a short leash? I can't recall anyone recently but may be forgetting someone.
7/14 is my birthday, but I'd love to hear what it means to you, LINJ. :)
Billy, if you missed it, I left my email address above.
"Just because the Yanks played a veteran at a position doesn't mean there was prospect being blocked."
I will repeat: No everyday starter has has been added to the roster from the minor leagues since Gardner.
Either they can't draft, and/or they can't develop, and/or they aren't giving opportunities.
How is that not an abysmal failure and an indictment of their entire process?
They gave Capuano starts over Mitchell.
They only gave Greene a chance out of desperation.
"I'm not convinced Pirela is the answer."
Without extended PT how could anyone be convinced either way?
" what hitting prospect have you seen called up that didn't get either consistent ABs or had a short leash"
Wait. Either you get consistent AB or you have a short leash. So please rephrase.
7/14 is also my dad's birthday.
Green got a shot out of desperation? Maybe it was because he actually showed he was ready for it.
Mitchell had a career bb/9 of over 5 coming into the year and had made only 3 starts above A ball. He's only 23 and finally started to taste SUCCESS for the first time ever this year. But let's knock the kid down and throw him to the wolves instead of easing him into a role and getting his feet wet. Jumping 3 levels in 1 year is extremely difficult and very uncommon.
We've already established the player development has had systemic failure throughout the years, keep reiterating points agreed upon.
I don't need to rephrase my initial question. Consistent AB means they played everyday but failed and sent down.
Short leash means they played sparingly.
Mike, I'll shoot you an email now. thanks
My wedding anniversary is 7/14 . Funny John Lester is a Yankee according to his wiki page.
In general, players are going to have to usually show something right away when they come up with the Yankees; otherwise, they'll be sent back down. It's the nature of the beast with a team that holds to a "compete every year" philosophy. Unfortunately, it's not conductive to player development.
Billy, I replied back.
And props to everyone for having a connection to 7/14 in some way. :)
"Green got a shot out of desperation? Maybe it was because he actually showed he was ready for it."
No, you're missing the point. They had five starters, three of which had expensive contracts. That means he was blocked unless they physically imploded.
If they sign two starters, as Cashman has talked about, the same issue arises with Greene and Mitchell if everyone is healthy.
If they sign Miller and bring back Robertson, along with Betances and Wilson, they may be doing that with Lindgren and other talented young relievers.
"Mitchell had a career bb/9 of over 5 coming into the year and had made only 3 starts above A ball. He's only 23 and finally started to taste SUCCESS for the first time ever this year. But let's knock the kid down and throw him to the wolves instead of easing him into a role and getting his feet wet. Jumping 3 levels in 1 year is extremely difficult and very uncommon. "
All I am talking about is September and/or late August instead of Crapuano and whatever other crap starters they used ahead of him.
"We've already established the player development has had systemic failure throughout the years, keep reiterating points agreed upon."
Yet we don't agree on critical importance of accountability, so the agreement is illusory.
"Consistent AB means they played everyday but failed and sent down.
Short leash means they played sparingly."
They haven't given a young position player consistent AB since Cano even though he sucked early on.
That was back before Cashman became an incompetent sell-out. He probably would have been traded now.
Dodgers heavy on Lester.
Yes and some already deleted his time with the Yanks from his wiki page LOL. Not a good sign.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/yankees/post/_/id/81637/derek-jeters-replacement-could-be-cuban-phenom-yoan-moncada
Mike Axisa 17m
The Yankees are going to go four years for a lefty reliever but not a starting third baseman, aren't they?
_
I think either are ridiculous.
I agree. If they sign Miller for four years when that was the sticking point for Robertson, then I'm not sure what the logic is behind that.
Obviously, the only reason they would do that is to get a pick for Robertson while they spend their own on Scherzer or something.
But if picks matter, go all out for Lester.
Selig and the mediots who cover MLB have created a delusional Ortiz, who I predict will be the first known 'roider in the HoF:
Ortiz said Thursday he was deeply upset when Rodriguez’s lawyer went on ESPN radio in January and said of past PED use in baseball: “I’m not going to start naming all the other players, but some of them are God-like in Boston right now, and people seem to forget that.”
The lawyer, Joe Tacopina, later said he was not talking about Ortiz, but the damage was done.
“I was angry,” Ortiz said Thursday of the lawyer’s comment.
I asked Ortiz if he and Rodriguez are OK with each other now nearly 11 months later, and Big Papi, a man who wears his heart on his sleeve, answered: “I haven’t talked to him since.”
@AnthonyDiComo: #Mets have named longtime Yankees employee Pat Roessler their assistant hitting coach. He will serve under Kevin Long.
He had been the Yanks head of player development since 2004.
I am sensing a signing today.
They say Miller may sign some where today
Greene for Gregorius?
I really don't like this trade of Green for Gregtoious!!!! Im pissed
I'm not sure how I feel about it right now. I need to look at this a little further but my initial reaction is ecstatic over the fact that we didn't trade any prospects.
There's a new thread on the trade.
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