Joe Must Go
Joe Torre was finally booed at Yankee Stadium. He took Mike Mussina out with one out and one on in the 7th with a 2-1 lead. Moose had only thrown 95 pitches and had been in command all day. He brought in Scott Proctor and allowed Proc to give up a double and 3 walks, before relieving him with Bruney, the far better pitcher. Yanks fell behind 4-2 as a result of Torre's latest overmanaging disaster. The Yanks need a spark and it has to come from their leader. This leader can't spark them and needs to go.
posted by Kalel9 @ 1:16 PM
22 Comments:
It's their only option if they hire the right person to replace him.
Even if Cashman is held accountable for the bad moves he has made, firing him won't spark the team.
I know there is no Ranger thread here, but I sure hope we don't hire Messier as assistant GM. We will now see who was really calling the shots.
BTW nice game for the Yanks can we get 5 in a row tomorrow?
Joe must go.
I don't think Mattingly is ready, and even if he was he is not the answer. I think this team is flawed in it's makeup. Cash has not been able to get the pen right for some time. His track record with pitching has been suspect at best. Not sure what the answers are. Tonight was not on Torre, it was our vaunted offense, and stellar pen that did the trick. This offensive shell is worse then the past three post seasons where the did not hit in the clutch, now they are not hitting at all.
bring on Billy Beane
Billy Beane's an arroagant jackass, and there is no guarantee that he could do any better than he's done with a bigger budget. Look at Sather.
How did Stick ever lose his power anyway? Oh yeah, George became envious because he got too much of the credit that he richly deserved.
Give Stick his power back, and let him hire the manager of his choice.
A lot of fans are not even looking at Cashman to blame for this mess...but hes making some shitty moves in the past years to be really screwing us over...Joe and Cash both need to GO
I'm not one of them. Cash's record is mixed at best, and I would have no problem replacing him IF he is succeeded by a competent GM. Unfortunately, the Yankees under George's ownership have an abysmal record of hiring competent GMs.
So I would need to know who the new GM would be before I fired Cashman.
If it's Stick, or Beane, or Ryan, or Schuerholz, fine, but that's highly unlikely.
Also, while Cash has made some bad trades and free agent signings, he does understand that the amateur draft is the lifeblood of any franchise. The first draft that he supervised appears to have been superb.
So if the choice is Cashman or a return to Geoge's sycopantic cronies, I would stick with Cashman.
That shouldn't be the choice for such a storied franchise, but we have to be realistic.
what Cash has done for the farm since getting power over it has been miraculous. He had an absolute monster draft and IFA haul last year. He might even add some more D and F's by the deadline on the 31st.
If he keeps his job, he really needs to shift his focus to drafting position players, and perhaps the player personnel people he has relied on, when he seeks input for trades and free agent signings, aren't as competent as he thought they were. He needs to be successful in every area, and I'm pretty sure he would agree that he hasn't been.
His loyalty to Torre has also cost him.
He fired the old major league scouts after last season and replaced them. He has changed a lot of people in the personel end of the organization. It would be good to see what they can do. Patience is in order here.
BTW, they signed a lot of position kids last year in IFA. We'll start seeing them next month in short season, and he may sign a position guy or two by the deadline on the 31st.
one thing he has to do is find a real 1b...doug m and phelps arent working..lets not even talk about giambi, his ass should be benched
I think Cash himself is responsible for any lack of patience. If the mission statement is, in his own words, to win the WS every single year, the Shef and RJ trades were poor because they didn't fit that model, especially given how apparent it was that the team had a number of holes that are partially the cause of the team's current plight.
As an example, the bench is abysmal. So while it wasn't foreseeable that the OF production would be so poor, a better bench might of ameliorated that problem.
I also think that Moose had proven to be too fragile to give a two year contract.
It was also apparent that the team had become complacent under Torre. If Cash has his way, Torre will probably get to manage the team as long as he wants.
There's a lot wrong with the organization now - firing Mike Pags as their Japanese scout is a good case in point.
All I know is they better do something soon before I jab my eyes out.
Leyritz: The biggest problem is that guys are joking around and having fun after losing the first game of a doubleheader. Torre didn't let that happen when he played. If Torre can't stop that from happening, maybe it's time for someone else.
very good point. I mentioned something similiar on BBI comparing Beane to Sather. Based off the reports in todays papers Cash has support.
Cash should stay. They will improve and they have a chance to add a lot more amateur talent over the next six weeks in D and F, the draft and International Free Agency.
Beane's track record is much better than Sather's. There is no real comparison. Sather's reputation was built solely on the acquisitions of Gretzky, Messier, etc., which were largely the result of spending money. Bean keeps rebuilding his team without money.
Heyman thinks Torre could go:
However, Steinbrenner's first public words in weeks shouldn't be taken to mean that he is pleased with Torre. Steinbrenner has long been reticent to say how he really feels about Torre, since the manager has near-deity status in New York. Behind the scenes, Steinbrenner actually has been just as negative on Torre, criticizing the manager for his bad bullpen moves and the team's moribund appearance.
While Steinbrenner is annoyed by several of Cashman's decisions (Carl Pavano, Kei Igawa, the conditioning guy, etc.), in terms of job security, in all likelihood Torre's position is more tenuous than Cashman's; the GM has another year to go on his contract and will almost assuredly be kept around, if only to be berated. It doesn't help that the Yankees have lost another four games since Steinbrenner spoke and fallen into a last-place te with Steinbrenner's longtime laughingstock neighbors, the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.
[...]
These are the top three reasons why Torre may wind up keeping his job for a few days, weeks, months, or even the remainder of the season:
• Steinbrenner doesn't want to pay Torre his $7 million salary to sit at home in Westchester.
• Steinbrenner wants Torre to suffer this season.
• Steinbrenner likes bench coach/heir apparent Don Mattingly too much to subject him to this, and he isn't sure Mattingly, or anyone else, for that matter, is up to the task, anyway.
Sather won. Bean hasn't.
Sather won because of Messier, Gretzky, Coffey, Kurri, etc. Those were moves that were made possible because Pocklington authorized him to outbid the NHL. Beane never had that luxury. Sather's rep is totally a function of that era. Beane has beenable to repeatedly reinvent his team by being great at identifying talent.
Back on topic:
If the Yankees can't make a significant trade for a bat, Torre has to go now. This season is in danger of being flushed away. The Wild Card is still very much in play.
Cash has to become the voice for firing Joe. If he continues to support him, I don't understand how anyone can defend him.
Something has to change now. This team has no fire and no one argues when the umps screw them.
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