Go Giants!
Sheesh, that was weird yesterday. Still, I believe it can all be cleaned up and if the Giants make the playoffs, they will have a real shot. The season isn't over, unless they let it be. I hope they can come back from yesterday's debacle. Go Giants!
posted by Kalel9 @ 8:48 AM
35 Comments:
Repost:
The loss is on the head coach.
He knew or should have known that the punter was a problem but stuck with him.
He knew or should have known that the ST coach was a problem but stuck with him.
He knew or should have known that the punter wasn't the only player responsible for the breakdown, yet he singles him out on the field.
It's on the head coach. I'm tired of his act. He should be fired tonight.
Yesterday's debacle was worthy of some heads rolling. Rich, who would you be in favor of coming in?
Cowher.
Rich I agree with you this one is on Coughlin. Being that he has 1 year left after this, the only way he would get fired is if we miss the playoffs. If as many report Fisher will be out at Tennessee? Would you like him as a possible better viable option? The old adage is is to get rid of someone a year too early then a year too late. It seems this year there will be plenty of coaching options. Even if he gets an extension I cannot see it being more then 1 year. I myself think it's time to pull the plug, and would be find w Cowher. Reese also needs to be held accountable..
I like Fisher, Michael, but I think the more likely course is that they make the playoffs and Coughlin stays.
I agree about Reese. As long as Vick was going to be allowed back into the NFL, I wanted the Giants to sign him. Not to replace Eli, only as an asset.
Plus the Giants have very little flat out speed on offense, like the Eagles have in abundance.
Reese being held accountable for blowing a 21 point lead with 8mins left in the 4th?
Stop, that's just silly.
The reason we lost is because of the coaches. Ever since week 1 I have said it loud and clear, Matt Dodge is going to cost us a game, if not more then one. He is just bad, plain and simple.
Now onto the coaches. Not playing Cover 2 or a Spy defense when they have the fastest qb in the league when were up 21 with 7mins left? Are you kidding me? The only way you get 3 scores is TO's, HUGE plays and onside kicks.
Well what happened? 70 yd pass play to a TE? HA
Onside Kick that EVERYONE knew was coming except for us? JOKE
And LONG RUNS by michael vick.
Dodge cost us the game, but he didn't lose it for us.
Who hires the coaches? The HC with the GM's blessing. So part of the responsibility can necessarily be imputed to the GM.
Sure, if you want to myopically skew the point so that it only relates to blowing the lead, it is silly.
BUT that's not the point.
The point is ensuring that the ST are functional falls within the GM's purview.
The point is their lack of all out speed on offense.
The point is their inability to have hits in the draft at LB.
Only Coughlin thinks Dodge lost the game. He made an ass out of himself demonstrating that on the field.
Who hired Coughlin? Who keeps Coughlin on?
Rich I agree with you, as history has shown when TC's back is up against the wall the Giants seem to bail him out ala the year prior to winning the Superbowl. It is painfully obvious the speed we lack on the offensive side of the ball. The sad part is we have talent, and in my opinion not the proper coaching to best maximize it..
I especially loved the defensive gameplan in the fourth quarter: Make no attempt to contain Vick. Honestly, containment, along with proper tackling, are truly lost arts in football. Everyone overpursues and goes for the big hit, expecting the guy to just fall over, rather than wrapping up.
/end rant
Rich,
Who hired coughlin? Ernie Accorsi.
Jerry Reese didn't become gm till 07. Coughlin was hired in 04.
As for speed on offense? huh? Hakeem Nicks is already a top 5 reciever in football and he's in his second year. Ahmad Bradshaw was leading the league in rushing up until week 13.
The only thing I can actually agree with what you say is your assesment of the inability to find a LB. We have needed one for 2 years now and we still don't have one.
Other then that, our ST have been a problem whether its atrocious matt dodge or darius reynaud, they are just a sad unit. This is the only other problem I have with reese. We actually DRAFTED dodge, and TRADED for reynaud, and they are both busts.
But to say Reese is the reason we gave up 28pts in 8mins is quite comical. He's not there to tell them to be heads up for an onside kick, he's not the one who is calling defensive blitzes with no spy's. Its 100% the coaches fault we lost.
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Wellington Mara and Bob Tisch hired Coughlin. Accorsi tried to scuttle it, and delayed things long enough for TC to lose a bunch of assistant coaches he had lined up. Accorsi was never allowed to hire a head coach with the Colts, Browns or Giants. Heck of a raconteur, though.
willmart
Yes, but Accorsi isn't the reason that Coughlin remains the head coach. By keeping Coughlin on, Reese in effect ratified that decision.
So your point is that because Bradshaw (a FA) and Nicks are good, it completely negates the need for all out speed at other positions? Huh?
You don't need all out speed at every offensive position, but they don't have anywhere near the speed on offense that the Eagles do. Speed is like a baseball team with HR power. How much better would Eli a 4.2 40 guy? How much better would their ST be?
In part (Hixon's injury is the other part), it's the reason that if the situation was reversed on Sunday, the Giants had no chance to win the game with a punt return.
What's comical is that you keep repeating something you made up:
"But to say Reese is the reason we gave up 28pts in 8mins is quite comical"
No one said that except..wait for it...you.
Yet you acknowledge that he chose the punter and the return man (and by implication the cover guys).
And he keeps on the coach who keeps on the ST coach, even though he didn't originally hire Coughlin.
That's the same two coaches who bear responsibility for not having the hands team on the field when the Reid called for an on sides kick.
So again, no one overstated Reese's role except you.
Coughlin and his coaches are primarily responsible.
If Coughlin stays, who is that on?
The owners choose the coaches.
That's a problem.
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Rich
Bradshaw was drafted in the 7th round by the giants. Quite the steal if you ask me, and definitely not a FA pickup as you claim.
As for your need for speed, there is MAYBE a handful of guys who even run a 4.2 in the NFL, let alone play on offense. You want them, I want them, EVERYONE wants them. Running fast doesn't make you a good player, ie darius heyward-bay, but it does mask your weaknesses such as route running, hands, etc. Mike Wallace and Desean Jackson both come to mind in that regard.
As for saying Coughlin should of been fired a long time ago, it was just unrealistic due to the fact he led us to a superbowl in 07 and was given a 4 year extension. I have never been a big fan and probably never will be but it cant be justified and would be unwarranted to fire a coach within 2 years of winning a sueprbowl.
I have never said Reese was the reason we lost so stop trying to put words in my mouth. I simply said 2 of his moves backfired and 1 of them was remedied (no more reynaud) and the other was not (dodge). I apologize, I thought you were the one who said Reese needs to be held accountable, when in fact it was Michael. However,
I don't see you or anyone applauding him for his ridiculous depth he AMOUNTED on our offensive line, such depth that can REPLACE 3 starters and still lead us to victories.
The loss of Hixon as you pointed out was huge in both the return game as well as on our WR depth chart. If smith was healthy, our 3 wr rank up their with just about anyones in the game. Kevin Boss has been HUGE for us, do you remember what happened when he was out with a concussion for a few weeks? I think you are looking too much at the minor negatives instead of looking at the positives.
A win on sunday guarantees us a playoff spot. Even in the aftermath of this terrible loss, there is hope.
No, I'm saying that Bradshaw will be a FA after the season.
How have the Eagles gotten so many more speed players?
This is funny. No one ever said it. That's the point. Michael wasn't blaming Reese for the loss. I think he was merely pointing out that when things go so wrong, everyone is accountable because no one player, no one play, and no one person bears full responsibility. Well, Couglin seems to think it's one player's fault, but I guess he forgot his (empty) rhetoric about winning and losing as a team.
The OL problem isn't depth. It's that Diehl at LT and O'Hara at C are suboptimal.
btw, What I did say about Reese is that even though I might not have allowed Vick back into the NFL, given that he was let back in, the Giants should have signed him. Not to replace Eli, but as an asset.
Rich, very well spoken, you made the exact point I was trying to make.
Desean Jackson was passed over by every club once because of his size and questionable makeup. He has been injured in his days but has also been lightning in a bottle as well. You gotta remember he's like 5'10 170lbs, its not quite often those guys hold up.
As for the other speed guys, Maclin was a drafted AHEAD of nicks in 09, and if you ask me, I prefer nicks size/hands/speed over maclins speed.
I like you vick idea, and I would of loved to have him but in a city like new york, the media would of been such a deterrent to the team it probably wasn't worth it. Plus he would still be a backup cause Eli hasn't been hurt...knock on wood
Screw the media. They're all morons.
As a member of the media, I object to that Rich. :P
Just to touch on a point, I doubt seriously that ANYONE runs a legit 4.2 40. MAYBE one or two players in the league. 4.5 40 is plenty fast as long as they're tall, have good hands and run good routes.
Mike
Sports media? Anyway, there are exceptions to every general rule.
Whatever the right 40 times are, the Eagles have a lot of really fast guys.
btw, When he was drafted, Joey Galloway supposedly ran a 4.1.
Maybe it was hype, who knows?
Yeah, I'm a sports writer at a small-town newspaper in Mississippi. One and a half years removed from college.
I find it hard to believe, based on what people more knowledgeable than me in the area of football have said, that anyone is physically capable of running a 4.1 40. Maybe Usain Bolt...
Mike
That's great. It's only when people make the jump to NY or the national media that they risk losing their common sense. ;)
Did we PM a few times when we both posted at NYYFans? If yes, then I hadn't realize who you were.
FWIW:
link
I was 27IsNext on NYYFans, and we did PM a bit. I quit posting after the '09 World Series because I got tired of it (and because 27 was no longer next).
Thanks for the link, some good info. I've always been a bit skeptical of 40-yard times, and the NFL Combine in general. I've always heard it said that too many of these athletes train to improve their "measurables" instead of training to become better football players. Jerry Rice's 40-yard time was supposedly 4.71, for example.
I wish I quit posting on nyyfans, I'd still be interning with the yanks baseball ops department :(
god damn whistleblowers. try to give people a little bit inside information and looks where it got me
Mike
For some reason, perhaps early senility, I thought you were someone else with 27 in their user name.
I can recall you talking about college (Auburn?). Anyway, I'm glad you have a job in the field, and based on the NY/national mediots, your path to advancement should be relatively unimpeded!!!
Rich, I went to Alabama for four years and graduated in May '09, before getting the job I have now. And I have no desire to work in the NY media. ;)
Will, that's too bad. NYYFans ruins a promising up-and-comer. And to add insult to injury, they didn't even appreciate the info. :P
At least it started with an A...
Happy Holidays Phil, Rich, Mike and all other readers of the blog!
Merry Christmas Phil! As always, thanks for all the info you provide.
Rich, Michael, Will, everyone else, same to you guys. :)
Merry Christmas to everyone as well.
This may be the worst coached team I have ever seen.
time for TC to go... can't wait till Phil starts a new thread and let the discussion really begin..
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